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GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?
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threeman
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2005-10-07 3:06 PM (#1348)
Subject: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 184

Location: Georgia
Well I took a trip to OK this week from GA. 1100 miles to be exact one way. Whew..man am I tired. The truck is a 2005 GM Duramax w/allison 3500 4x4 Dually. The fourth I have owned two of which were 2500's. All were 03's one was bought back by GM for leaky transmission. The o5 seems to be a better truck as per the power train or at least I thought.

I have a 05 Platinum 4 horse with 11' shortwall. 7' tall, 8 wide, hayrack etc. Loaded with oak LQ package. Heavy...yes in my opinion it is. It weighs in at 10700 empty with no water, horse, or anything else. With 75 gal of water, 15 gal gas, 1 bale of hay, three bags of shavings, food for 4 days, drinks, clothes, 3 saddles and 20 bits or so, mangers were full with misc junk. No horse going only coming back.

The truck has an auxillary fuel tank of 60 gal. Most of the time we tried to keep it topped off when we found fuel for 2.99 or less.

From GA to Ok City there are some fairly good hills to climb. I have a heavy foot and do not like to slow down coming up the grade. I usually run 75 or so. Sometimes I ran 80 to be honest when traffic allowed. The trucks fan clutch runs alot. It always has. When I say alot I mean about every few miles its on. A/C was on as well. Truck temp stayed about 210 and tranny about 190 going. Several times I had my foot on the floor trying to maintain the speed at the grade we were at.

Coming back was little different but mostly the same. I did manage to get the truck to about 218-220 degrees and tranny up to 210. I floored it alot coming back trying to maintain 75 or better up and down the grade. The tranny doesnt down shift to allow for good climbs it seems to hold overdrive way to long. When it does shift into Drive its almost at the red line and then drops right back to OD in just a few minutes. Annoying to say the least. Its working entirely too much. Fuel mileage is a whopping 9.0 mPg. while towing. Going and coming and I had an additional 1000lbs after picking up the horse. I floored it alot coming back to much if you ask me. The truck is new and has 12k miles. The gear is a little short at 3.73. I would feel alot better if it would downshift and had lower gear. I guess then it would hit the rev limiter for sure. It had gotten to the point of turning OD off going up a hill until I red lined and then I would shift back to OD. Heck if I have to do that I think I would just as soon have a manual tranny.

Just curious as to whether you guys with GM's are having this problem too or maybe I just need a 550. I have just about had enough GM. I have no idea what it will be but this cannot continue for a long life vehicle.
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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-10-07 7:24 PM (#1349 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 2621

This is a troll, right ?

You're just trying to get replies saying you must be nuts to drive like that with a trailer, or did I read it wrong ?

Well, I think you need some practice - as a troll.
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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2005-10-07 7:39 PM (#1350 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 727

Location: sc

 

Originally written by Reg on 2005-10-07 7:24 PM

This is a troll, right ? You're just trying to get replies saying you must be nuts to drive like that with a trailer, or did I read it wrong ? Well, I think you need some practice - as a troll.

i agree.

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threeman
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2005-10-07 8:42 PM (#1351 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 184

Location: Georgia
No no no troll. Just trying to find out whether or not anyone else is having problems with shifting in their duramax under a load. Yeah it will probably pull it 65 ok but I dont drive anywhere that speed. With or without a trailer. If the tire blows yeah I am in trouble but its my ass.

I know I am not the only pulling a load with a 350 or 3500 truck. I see them everyday. I also know that someone has to have shift problems primarily downshifting so that the tranny will pull the load up hill. The fan clutch deal is VERY annoying. The other Dmax's did it as well so its really not anything new but I think this one is worse. The dealer wouldnt change this one yet but I probably will get them to at some point.
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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-10-08 7:41 AM (#1352 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 2621

I'm not having such problems with mine.
I'm not hauling quite as much weight, though I am pushing an 8ft wide trailer with 7ft 6in headroom through the air, at significantly lower speeds. Some very significant amount of the power consumed at speed goes to overcoming air resistance, especially with vehicles that have aerodynamics no better than a barn. Mid to high 13.x MPG.
The fan clutch has come on a "few" times, less then 6 and it has typically been at low speeds when climbing steep grades on secondary (country) roads in low gears - i.e. when heavily loaded and I think thats about right. The alternative is to change to a different fan that has more air flow all the time, or change pulley sizes. For what I do and how I do it, its fine.

There is a BIG gap between 4th and 5th., when fully loaded I do get downshifts on the highway. I don't think I'd want lower overall gearing to avoid this. This is a truck, it is hauling a load, it slows down on long grades, it downshift - - the nature of things that are...
"No thanks" to 4.something axles.

Next size up in trucks is mid size and may be opposite to where you seem to want to go. 190 and 210 hp straight 6s ?, SOME 250hp engines, over 300hp is hard to find without going "REAL BIG", more, MANY MORE gears in a lot of cases. I look at Kodiaks and 4500/5500s once in a while, though not for speed, you get a heavier truck with little more power, if any.

OK, I'll bite: It isn't just "YOUR ASS" !
It is your passengers', horses' dependants', anyone unfortunate enough to be involved in your accident or debris field - and their passengers, dependants,,, etc.

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threeman
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2005-10-08 8:15 AM (#1353 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 184

Location: Georgia
I dont have a problem at all with GM or the power from the motor. I live in GA and its flat. Very flat. Running 65 or even 70 around here the fan clutch comes on. I pulled a 16000 lb tractor and trailer a couple of times and each time the fan clutch has come on for significant amount of time. For instance on very level ground with a 16k lb load it came on between towns for 10 miles. I was driving 50-55 with the tractor since it was so large. Any suggestions on the fan of different size or with more air flow. The truck had one of those billet grill guards and I removed it thinking it was breaking up the air going into the radiator. It seemed to help but not much if at all. Like I said I dont have a problem with the truck really. I have 8 GM vehicles here that are 2001 or newer. Work vehicles not personal. All of which are GM for a reason. I like them and have had good service from them. The duramax is something new though. I have had problems of some type from each that I had. First the leaking tranny, then the buy out didnt have the power the first one had, the next 3500 had tranny electrical problems breaking the Nuetral Safety switch quite often, this one seems to run a tad on the warm side while loaded. The fan clutch is annoying I dont care what speed you are running. They are annoying on the 1/2, 3/4, and 1 ton gas vehicles that we have but they run alot more on the diesel than those combined. I think the 4.10 gear will cause high rpms without change to transmission gearing. The truck doesnt need higher RPM's. I have hit the rev limiter more than once. Power wise WHEN the tranny downshifts it pulls fine up hill. Will a programmer allow changing shift points? I would imagine they only allow shift points to be changed for up shifts not down shifts. I have pampered each vehicle I have had for the last 15 years. None of which have really been used. I had an old ford that literally was used and abused and it was a good truck. Funny how you find one of those. I promised my self after these problems with the first three diesels that I would test this one out to see how it performed under loads. I rarely drive the truck without a load on it. 85% of its life has already been with a trailer in tow. I would also say 85% of the time there is a trailer connected to it. Back to the drawing board I guess in finding a solution to the fan clutch problem.
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Stuck in NH
Reg. Oct 2005
Posted 2005-10-08 8:56 AM (#1354 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 7

Location: NH

>Just a view from a different class of trucks.

I drive a 2006 Mack with a 330hp (1200ft-lbs torque) for work.  Standard 10 speed tranny.

My trucks fan runs more empty @ 37000 than at 80000 loaded.  On a particular stretch of flat road that I drive all the time, when the truck is empty the fan will run the entire 20 miles.  When the truck is loaded, I get a little push from the slight downgrades & the fan tends to stay off.

I pull most good hills at 30mph loaded because this is all that the motor can manage.

 

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retento
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2005-10-08 12:03 PM (#1355 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 256

Location: rocky mount nc
Why don't you just slow down a bit, Fan is engageing because of the heat, excessive amout of heat being generated be trying to tow 16,000# at light speed. Fine you a 1,000,000+ mile used single axle over the road tractor. So far as shifting at the speeds you are trying to pull you need a gear between 4th and 5th, a 9, 10, or 13 speed roadranger behind a 855 cummins would fit the ticket. Just slow down a little or there may not be a tomorrow for you and who ever else you take out when you burn in! Repeat to yourself, COMMON SENCE, COMMON SENCE, COMMON SENCE over and over and over.........Think about what you are doing, and good luck.
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farmbabe
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2005-10-08 2:22 PM (#1356 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 937

Location: michigan

You can also think to yourself with correct spelling

 

COMMON SENSE COMMON SENSE

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retento
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2005-10-08 4:40 PM (#1357 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 256

Location: rocky mount nc
Hey, farmbabe, give me a break or is it brake, teecher. I had just wokted up from mie nap, dont need me no kinda spelin leson!
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farmbabe
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2005-10-08 6:27 PM (#1358 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 937

Location: michigan
Ok here is the deal- you write down "sense" twenty times and we'll call it even.....
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retento
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2005-10-08 6:40 PM (#1359 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 256

Location: rocky mount nc
 sense sense sense sense sense sense sense sense sense sense sense sense sense sense sense sense sense sense sense sense  farmbabe, you have a large weekend! BYE!

Edited by retento 2005-10-08 6:41 PM
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arroyoseccofarm
Reg. Apr 2004
Posted 2005-10-08 6:48 PM (#1360 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 201

Location: North Texas
       definately!

Edited by arroyoseccofarm 2005-10-08 6:50 PM
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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-10-09 3:31 PM (#1361 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 2621

Just as a matter of curiosity...
What transmission temps are you experiencing ?
Other curiosities: Are yoiu using synthetic oils anywhere ?
Engine, trans, transfer case, diffs, etc. ?
{Just curious}

I was thinking about this thread while on the road this morning.
If it is ONLY the fan noise you MIGHT be able to mount a thermostatically controlled electric fan in front of the radiator(s). Set it up to come in maybe 5 degrees below where the fan clutch operates and you COULD finish up with a quiet and KOOL solution.
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rollingrfarm
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2005-10-09 4:37 PM (#1362 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?






Posts: 962

Location: The end of the Earth, SE AR

 We drove our 3500 2003 Dodge manual transmission pulling a 3H 8foot LQ Platinum Coach and our friends were in a 1 ton GMC allison transmission pulling a Sundowner with 10 or 12 foot LQ from Arkansas to the Black Hills of SD.  Not only did we encounter hills and mountains but severe winds that tried to push us off the road or that we had to drive into.

We'd stop for diesel for our Dodge and we'd put in $40 and our GMC friend put in $60.  We'd be able to pass on the hills and go $80 when the wind was bad and the GMC was pegged out at 70 with no more "go".

I wouldn't trade my manual transmission Dodge diesel for anything in the world.  If you are going to pull on hills you'd better have a manual and better get a Goat.

 

KR 

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threeman
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2005-10-09 7:53 PM (#1363 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 184

Location: Georgia
Thanks guys for the last two post. Thanks alot for similar situations not critizism.

The fan clutch seems to come on whenever the transmission temp gets to 180 maybe 185. Not all the time but it does come on some. Whenever it gets to 200 its pretty regular. The truck temp usually stays at 210 but I did get it to 220.

I honestly would consider the manual if I go truck shopping again. I will have to keep the one I have for another year or so before I can trade. I dont want to loose anymore than I have too. Unless the truck breaks down then I will replace it.

The hills in AR I spoke of were on I-40 between Memphis and Tulsa. Hills are really all that they are but they roll from one to the next.

I think I am going to put an electric fan in front of the tranny cooler. I have not read anywhere that anyone has done this but I am sure they have. That should keep things a tad cooler.

In MY OPINION the drive gear in the tranny or at least in my tranny is a tad to low. The truck upshifts fine but whenever you need to down shift it is at 3200 or so when it drops out of OD. It would be better IN MY OPINION if the gear were a little taller so that it could wind up a bit before haveing to shift back into OD. That would really solve my issues. I know it will not happen but ....

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threeman
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2005-10-09 7:55 PM (#1364 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 184

Location: Georgia
Hey I forgot that the oil is Rotella T Synthetic, tranny still has TransSyn, rear end is factory.  Transfer case?  I have no idea its factory too.
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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-10-10 6:43 AM (#1365 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 2621

Originally written by rollingrfarm on 2005-10-09 4:37 PM

We drove our 3500 2003 Dodge manual transmission pulling a 3H 8foot LQ Platinum Coach and our friends were in a 1 ton GMC allison transmission pulling a Sundowner with 10 or 12 foot LQ from Arkansas to the Black Hills of SD. Not only did we encounter hills and mountains but severe winds that tried to push us off the road or that we had to drive into.

We'd stop for diesel for our Dodge and we'd put in $40 and our GMC friend put in $60. We'd be able to pass on the hills and go $80 when the wind was bad and the GMC was pegged out at 70 with no more "go".

I wouldn't trade my manual transmission Dodge diesel for anything in the world. If you are going to pull on hills you'd better have a manual and better get a Goat.

KR



Whatever out brand name loyalties may be it is not credible that two diesel trucks of comparable displacement and weight pulling comparable loads on the same journey would have such a difference in fuel use - manual vs automatic trans notwithstanding.
That the GM would burn 3 gallons to the Dodge's 2 gallons - just isn't in the range of probability. The D-Max is only about 10% more displacement and the fewer cylinders on the Cummins only save significant amounts of fuel when idling or at low speed in traffic. They're essentially the same technology, no magic.

MayBE on one or two of the fill-ups one vehicle was a lot lower than the other, maybe they started out that way, maybe one was more completely filled... lotsa maybes, but the Cummins isn't THAT much more fuel efficient than the D-Max, even with a manual trans.
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Stuck in NH
Reg. Oct 2005
Posted 2005-10-10 7:23 AM (#1366 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 7

Location: NH

Sorry, my computer crashed on last post & it took a while to have the time to refind the links..

From here ;  http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/Spec%20Sheets/Diesel/2006%20DieselLLY,LBZ.pdf I find that the duramax diesel is using a " Cooled Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve"

From here; http://www.thedieselpage.com/features/2006MY.htm  I find that the recirculated exhaust gas is being cooled by engine coolant.  Just like every other manufacturer is doing.

This is why my Mack & your Duramax run so much hotter than they used to.  It seems that Chevy is trying to aleviate this problem in the 2006 model year.

Just my .02

-Stuck

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QMaster
Reg. Oct 2005
Posted 2005-10-10 7:44 AM (#1367 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 1

Location: Youngsville,NC
In your GM truck you are not shifting out of overdrive with the button on the shifter as you would in a Ford or Dodge. If you are hauling a load you should always push the tow/haul button as it is called on a GM truck. The shift points and characteristics change for the transmission when changed into that mode. Be glad the fan is coming on, the noise and power loss save transmissions.
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MIfarmbabe
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-10-10 8:46 AM (#1368 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 565

Location: Michigan

You can find more answers to your GM Duramax problems by going to www.thedieselplace.com

Nothing but knowledgeable, GM truck fanatics there to chit-chat with.

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threeman
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2005-10-10 10:27 AM (#1369 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 184

Location: Georgia
I normally try to always use the tow haul. The only problem I honestly have with the truck is the downshifting. I honestly like the truck. Alot. If not I wouldnt have any of them here. I read for the 06 models that the double OD was added but nothing to the other gears. This is really not going to help alot in my opinion. The double OD is ok but the when downshifting does occur the drive gear should be a higher gear to allow more power build before immediately shifting back to OD. The way its setup it seems not to really accomplish anything when it does this but annoy the passengers. I honestly could live with the fan clutch sure beats a cooked engine. I do however like the way the 06 trucks will allow you to shift vs. the tranny in "auto". You will be able to set it manually and press a button to up shift or down shift. That would help some too. Not with the high revs when downshifting but for hills trying to climb it would help. I still may add the aux cooling fans like the old body style trucks had in addition to whats there. Other than that I am going to keep it unless it breaks until I can afford to trade it for something bigger.
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rollingrfarm
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2005-10-10 2:46 PM (#1370 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?






Posts: 962

Location: The end of the Earth, SE AR

Two highly competive men were driving.  They purposefully started up with totally full fuel tanks because they wanted to make a fair comparison of the 2 vehicles.  I gave you the straight facts and like many readers were very surprised at the difference.  The only variable I can add, and its a biased one, is that my husband seemed to use the momentem coming down the hill to help give him power going up the other side where the GMC driver didn't and always punched it when he started having trouble going up the hill.

 

KR

 

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threeman
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2005-10-10 3:42 PM (#1371 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 184

Location: Georgia
I like to use momentum to and I was shot down above for stating that. The hills in AR that we went through were nothing compare to those going out from TX to Gallup NM or even out from SD to WY. We use momentum too. I passed alot that struggled as you stated doing the exact same thing. Some hills they could hardly get up enough steam to keep moving. Some even slowed to 30 and 40 mph.
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huntseat
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-10-10 5:34 PM (#1372 - in reply to #1348)
Subject: RE: GM Trucks or maybe something heavier?





Posts: 1212

Location: Southwest OK

3man you were shot down because...IT AIN"T NASCAR!

I haul at 70 but not with anything near your load...

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